Genuine Spirituality Vs Newage Fake

I would like a to start a thread here, inviting comments on a theme that I think is of great importance. Obviously what we are doing here in and outside of this forúm impacts on the same level that the so called “New Age” is busy with, namely the etheric realm.
We are talking of the same energies that a lot of New Agers do. We are often using related terminology, like when we talk of chakras et cetera.
An outsider, coming from a materialist science world view would most probably register our endeavours under “New Age” without a blink of doubt.
Many people join this effort coming from a somewhat New Age background, and do often not understand why we are so opposed to most of the ideologies offered on this thriving market (the newage sewage as Don calls it sometimes) while seemingly being part of it.
I have my own budding ideas about this but would like to invite some comment and spark some debate with this question before I offer my own clumsy approximations.

Georg

Heheh, while you were posting this, Georg, I was writing and editing another entreaty along this vein. I’m passionately interested in demonstrating that what we’re all about has nothing at all to do with Theosophy-driven cults, including the newage movement.

Some of us are particularly conscious of not reflexivly adopting terminology that Theosophy has popularized, including such practical old Sanskrit terms, like ‘chakra.’ We’d be dead in the water without the psychics and most psychics use a lot of these terms because of their past association and even training with newagers. They also tend not to question some of the ideological underpinnings of that false religion but it’s good to remember that before we came along, only newagers were conversant about etherical subjects, not counting Dr Reich, whose influence was pretty much squashed by the feds by the time they murdered him in 1957. Also, it’s good to remind ouselves that personal ideology is never a problem unless it degenerates into preaching and ego contests.

Also, until pretty recently the coordinated disinformation campaign that calls itself the newage movement was a lot less frenetic and invasive than it is these days, so the loaded words that newager proselytes throw around didn’t seem quite as destructive to consultation as they do now. The revived fake passion behind the newage movement, as characterized by so many disinformation websites and radio talk show guests, has all the characteristics of a military campaign, actually, or perhaps an ‘ad campaign,’ which is how corporations wage psychological war on humanity and each other, and maybe we can flatter ourselves by fairly claiming to be largely responsible for that corporate/ideological reaction to our successful collective healing and restoration campaigns across the globe.

Actually, I don’t even use Dr Reich’s terminology except for a few words, because I don’t want to come across as a groupie. That impression, too, turns away rational people. In his defense, there was no way to describe his findings, then, without inventing words. This is very different from the way thtat many pioneers invent terminology as a way to ‘own’ new areas of enquiry.

If Reich had called, orgone, ‘prana,’ or ‘ch’i’, which would be accurate, he’d have looked like a mystic to the intelligentsia of the day and the only mystics around, then, in the West were charlatans who were connected to Theosophy. Until after the CIA and MI6 finally managed to popularize Theosophy in the 1960s, through promoting mind-altering substances among the first Monarch generation, people generally looked at all mysticism with a jaundiced eye.

I’ve hoped that we can all agree to keep using such an economic term (chakra) since substituting anything else would slow down the communication process and it seems innocuous enough to some of us. There’s nothing ideological about the term, itself, and most psychics can actually see the body’s and earth’s energy centers, after all, even remotely. Even that is subject to more discussion, of course. We could call chakras, ‘sproiks’ for that matter. Since this is a very cosmopolitan effort and it’s likely that most gifters don’t know or like English maybe we can agree adopt a Desperanto word.

I’m grateful to our Theosophy-influenced contributors on EW for not including heavily-loaded words like ‘karma’ and ‘past lives’ in their postings, at least. I think that by keeping the interlocking nature of science and spirituality in sight helps us keep both superstition and materialism from leaching into EW. Genuine folks seem to resonate with the content of this forum. Maybe if someone is particularly loathe to read a post that includes a Sanskrit word that person is not stable or passionate enough to actually go out and do the work that we’re trying so hard to encourage in our postings.

I don’t lean on the psychics to stop using terms that are convenient for them. Dooney’s the only one of them who posts much and she shares your and my aversion to loaded terminology, not having been trained by newagers. My wife sometimes uses the term, ‘past lives,’ in her personal readings becuase it’s economical, considering the vastness and mystery of the human soul, and most people, including me, know what someone means when using that term, assuming that the psychic someone isn’t a clever liar.

There’s certainly nothing disengenuous about Carol, a telepath who essentially dislikes language, and her psychic readings are incredibly insightful and useful. She’s guileless and won’t even open her mouth if someone has his/her guard up. I’m walking a tightrope when I try to distinguish what we’re all accomplishing from what newagers (posturing ‘legends in their own minds’) only talk about but I’m expressing this for the benefit of our readers who might experience a keejerk reaction to anything in our reports that seems cultish at first glance. The axe-grinding, aggressive materialists and atheists out there can go take a flying %&ck t the moon, for all I care. Who would want them on our parlors?

Maybe new terminology will simply become widespread in a natural process and maybe the dead (is this the death troes?) paradigm’s loaded words will just naturally deflate in time as the mind controllers continue to lose their footing. Languages change constantly, after all, and yesterday’s red herring is today’s gefiltefisch, without baggage.

Carol and I don’t hope to re-design an obsolete metaphysical paradigm, which is why we introduced terms like ‘Holy Handgrenade,’ ‘Saint Buster’s Button,’ and ‘Succor Punch.’ I know those terms won’t ever become mystified, at least, but if we’d adopted high-sounding phrases and key words some sewer rat agencies would probably have been able to cleverly weaponize the language by now, Theosophy-style, and turn it against this grassroot network.

We use the word, ‘love,’ a lot during the international chat sessions because we’ve lately discovered (been instructed?) that love energy, when sent to targets from a higher dimension than the sewer rats can reach, is especially effective at undermining teh world odor and some of its top predators. The dolphins, whales and Lemurians are especially active in those dimensions, some of us believe.

The deliciously ironic part, at least to me, of a failed word coup is that the world odor used people like The Beatles in the 1960s to help them assume ownership of that big word, ‘love.’ I think that’s a little bit like a dog chasing a car. Since the world odor doesn’t understand love, they can only convey an approximation in their mind control protocols that are based on the word. At least when Theosophy-proselytes talk incessantly about Being One we can assume they’re talking about the tired, old dope-enabled, pseudo-psychic hive mind dynamics like their more successful effort at Woodstock.

When more and more people have adopted the newer techniques for healing and ‘predator accountability’ then all that fake stuff from the 60s will look like the bad joke on spiritualithy that it actually was.

donebydooney.com will continue to have updated recommendations and direct coaching.

I hope that more people will weigh in to this thread!

~Don

The reason why I started this thread is in order to sharpen our discernment and because I have been challenged to explain myself more clearly by some associates, when I break out in rantings and raving about the new age.
So, essentially I’m looking for intellectual ammunition but also for better understanding.
There is no doubt in me that many different approaches to gain more truth are underway in this world at present.
So in the melee of fakers there are hiddeen gems and there is progress.
I have recently read various books that explore the confluence between quantum physics and mystical world views.
I think it is even more important to be able to read and digest stuff that is not 100% on one’s own trajectory but helps to enrich the perspective.
Learning to sort the wheat from the chaff is all it’s about.
Georg

Of course we need to read a lot of books in order to be able to converse intelligently, so thanks for making the point. Most gifters will choose not to do much reading simply because they only want to do the work, not so much to persuade cynical or even skeptical people. I know that my wife isn’t much interested in wrangling with cynics because she’s having too much fun interacting with the unseen world. I’m having too much fun hearing about that and garnering my occasional confirmations, for that matter, so I’m content to continue to play to people who are less motivated by skepticism and are more motivated by seeking an understanding of the new dimensions that orgonite is showing us all.

THE TAO OF PHYSICS by Fritjof Capra is pretty good, by the way–ties science in with the Creative Word, at least around the fringes.

All of the top scientists are aware of subtle energy dynamics and it’s too bad that most of them work in black ops and base their tech on DOR, I think. Meanwhile, university ‘scientists’ still teach outmoded crap, like Einstein’s, Darwin’s and Newton’s pre-digested drivel. A science student has to run that ennervating, boring gauntlet for four or more years in order to get to the real stuff, then he/she is likely to have to take a secrecy oath just to get in the door [Image Can Not Be Found];

AWESOME FORCE by Joseph Cater is also pretty good but the reader will have to do some sifting through some pretty broad but undemonstrated assumptions with this one, which always kind of annoys me. It’s tough to find a science author who isn’t trying to get you to assume that he’s got some kind of unquestionable authority.

EARTH ENERGIES, by Serge King, is the book that got me moving down this road. He’s obviously a humble, likeable spiritual teacher with a science background and sharp observation skills but he avoids using the Theosophical paradigm like one might avoid getting genital warts.

CRYSTAL POWER; CRYSTAL HEALING by Michael Gienger is a very objective book about the qualities of crystals and minerals. I’ve used Gienger’s example to try to get our EW posters to be as objective as possible but also to diligently post their subjective impressions, too, because the empirical data from a collection of subjective impressions (the contributors need to demonstrate some personal integrity, of course) generates a fine body of empirical evidence. I think we all know, by now, that complete objectivity is impossible because the viewer always influences what is viewed.

Anything by reputable scientists that has something to do with chaos theory is also useful. I once even read an intelligent dissertation on how the ‘past lives’ impression of newagers and some others is simply a myopic, intellectually lazy view of the timeless, dimentionless nature of the human soul. I wish I’d kept that.

Meanwhile, the world odor has been manipulating time and space since 1943 and the technology (including the death towers, I suspect) we don’t hear about is several generations ahead of whatever the uninitiated ‘scientists and engineers’ are aware of. It’s apparently all based on orgone, though of course the world odor only understands deadly orgone radiation, not the good stuff that we’re bathed in.

I think that these lettered but unititiated scientists and engineers are mostly the voluntary bulwarks of the dead-science paradigm, so good luck convincing any of them of anything at all that smacks of a broader world view [Image Can Not Be Found]

The stone wall you might be butting your head against may be that people who are indoctrinated in materialistic science (takes in just about every breathing soul who has a science or engineering degree, unfortunately) are going to have an excruciatingly hard time digesting any of what we’re discussing simply becuase what we’re doing is outside of their personal paradigm. Most of them are PJ folks, simply stated; very content with the way they think things are, since they get a lot of respect and even praise from less educated PJ folks. They’re not willing to be challenged. If I’m correct, the only thing you can do to influence them is to piss them off. They’re like clergy, in other words.

Another programming obstacle is the very educated folks’ assumption that any of what we’re doing can be understood by them on a theoretical level. Really, I tell these enquirers that it’s all experience based because that’s the new science/spirituality paradigm. Theory can follow on the heels of experience, if one feels a need to theorize after getting the consistent confirmations.

It may be that the dead-paradigm’s insistence on the importance of mere theory might be seen to be kind of inconsequential.

Georg, try challenging these associates to do some simple, inexpensive experiments BEFORE being willing to try to explain anything to them, okay? For that matter, if you refer them to me you can count on me not reverting to newage babble

Also, for your own peace of mind maybe you can determine whether it’s even worthwhile to try to convince these associates that what you’re talking about has any merit. If you enjoy arguing about etheric realities, that’s another story and more power to you.

I’m not aware of any real or implied obligation to justify our research to anyone for peer review or other arbitrary acceptance standards. Those are just intellectual shackles, anyway. The only way to ensure our own scientific progress is to constantly strive for intellectual integrity. The right people will always resonate with that, don’t worry.

~Don

New age is a bit of a buzzword, in that it has been used as a term of abuse, a pejorative term. Like conspiracy theorist–there you are meant to think conspiracy nut or with conspiracy theory it is conspiracy bullshit, but covertly so you aren’t aware of it.

The biggest traps on the planet are God out there and God as the group. That sums up religion. A great quote by a Native American is: “The white man goes into his church to talk about Jesus, the Indian goes into his teepee to talk to Jesus.”

That brings up another trap–addiction to psychedelics. A few new age gurus like Leary, Wilson, Lilly, Ram Dass and the other one were good on killing the two traps of God out there and God as the group, and I learnt a lot from them. A few never got off the drugs though, and they can be the biggest barrier to meditation.

You can free yourself from some guru traps with the knowledge that all paths lead nowhere . After that my favourite is: " We are not human beings here for a spiritual experience, but spiritual beings here for a human experience ."—-Dannion Brinkley.

Essentially we aren’t human, the body and personality are just vehicles created for the knolwedge to be gained from the experiencs in the human reality. The opposite of that is the mind control script called Darwinism. I think the past life stuff is tied into the ‘human’ stuff, as there is no doubt in my mind from various experiences and reading that past life trauma and dramas can impact on this life.

I picked up a book by an Indian guru and he said “Meditation is seeing God in yourself, Love is seeing God in someone else, and Knowledge is seeing God everywhere.” Which I thought was spot on, I then read some idiotic thing he said about Bin Laden, which just goes to show you can have spiritual knowledge but be a complete Pyjama person. I did read something awhile back, that years ago they didn’t allow a name for God, they said God was a feeling, and they used to put a circle of adults around a kid and make it feel love, and then tell him/her that that feeling was God. Jesus was essentially a yogi who moved his assemblage point to that position, what yogis call Samadhi Sananda http://www.whale.to/b/states.html

Don Juan said something along the lines of the fall of man was when our Assemblage Point was moved from being on that position–the point of Knowledge, and was moved to the point of Reason. All spiritual stuff is essentially trying to get back to that feeling of the position of knowledge, or the feeling of love. That is why psychedlics are so attractive, they can take you to that position.

With new age gurus God as the group is the trap, and the next level trap is to become one yourself. Leary and Lilly fell for that one.

It sure helps if you have an open third eye as you then have discernment and can avoid the groupthink traps. I guess most gifters have that. I am not sure what you need to see the tyrant but that is another big danger, not seeing the tyrants like the medical tyrant.

One bad group is Scientology, very nasty. The big mistake is the throw the baby out with the bathwater and reject the group along with all its knowledge. No group ever gained power without some useful knowledge, and scientology is a case in point–the tone scale was probably knowledge worked out by the Elite and given to Hubbard to play with. The book on the tone scale by Minshull is the best book I have ever read on psychology by a long street http://www.whale.to/v/tone.html http://www.whale.to/b/minshull_h.html

This, for example, stopped instantly a childish game I used to play with my stepdaughter where she pushed my button and I would react–I remember saying stop trying to wnd me up an her replying “I am not trying, I am succeeding!” I then saw she was dropping me into anger with antagonism.

All emotional games you see on soaps and dramas are based around the lower tone scale positions, all drama games, drama triangles.

But you wouldn’t want to go into scientology to get that knowledge as the mind control is pretty good in there.

I did come across another one called Werner Erhard and EST, that cured my depression in one weekend, purely with spiritual psychology, he was a genius for that and not too bad on the groupthink, never felt much pressure in that regard, and it was cheap, got the Law of Attraction too, which may have been the main thing.

john

Thx, John—goes to show that it really pays off to do some reading and experimenting.

When Kelly was here the other day I asked him what the Chinese word for ‘chakra’ is and he told it’s xuetao, which approximately means ‘the hidden way.’ A lot of Westerners who want to get away from the notion of an anthropomorphic creator figure (and also want to get away from ‘the alternative,’ which is Sanskrit-marinated presumptions) can study the TAO TE CHING and I particularly like that approach because it’s assumed on page one that any attempt to name or understand the nature of the Tao is misleading and probably arrogant. The book also gives some thoughtful examples about the powerful, even dynamic nature of humility.

I personally think that the more one will consider the powerful underlying but inscrutable reality that the Chinese call tao, the less inclined one will be to get snagged by clever ideologies that explain absolutely everything but answer nothing.

If someone is inclined to take Scientology seriously, just consider that L Ron Hubbard was a congenital liar. His son wrote an excellent expose on daddy, which you needed to read pretty fast in the early 1990s becuase it quickly went out of print, then the faithful removed every single copy from the market [Image Can Not Be Found]; and the author then recanted every word, even though he’d documented most of his statements. Maybe the faithful threatened to torture his children to death or something.

‘Ron’ always claimed that he went to China as a youth and learned about arcane mysteries (the basis of Scientology, don’t you know?) from the masters. His son photocopied a letter that Ron wrote after returning to Guam from his only trip to China, which was in the mid 1930s, while he was a high school student. His dad was in the Navy, stationed on the island of Guam, and Ron and his mom took a tourist trip to China. Here’s what ‘The Master’ wrote about the visit: The problem with China is there are too many Chinks in it.

I remember when Scientologists were laughed at. That was before the CIA apparently got behind it. When I was a kid in Blytheville, Arkansas, in the early 1960s there were a couple of scientologists in town who drove around in a white Cadillac that was a rolling billboard of L Ron’s words strung out with gold stick-on letters. I guess that was before Ron started insisting that everyone give ‘the church’ most of their earnings, otherwise they’d probably have been driving a Ford.

Of course we’ve entered a new age. The only problem with the term, ‘new age,’ is that it’s loaded with baggage, thanks to a lot of clever mischief made by some pretty cynical fake spiritual leaders and their corporate sponsors. The techniques used to promote newage ideologies and presumptions are very old-age, too. It was even old in Machiavelli’s day.

When I was going through the wringer in the early 90s (separation, divorce, loss of children) I also took an Erhard course for a long weekend and it really helped me. I found out, later, that the person presenting the material has a lot to do with how useful it is, though. My instructor obviously had a generous heart and a well-trained mind but another instructor, which a friend had, was an obtuse, bitter and arrogant fellow who apparently didn’t help anyone, much. The main thing the course taught me is that one needn’t be afraid of what others think becuase those others are mostly just terrified of what everyone else thinks, so aren’t spending a lot of effort on judgement, after all. It was pretty liberating for me. I like Erhard’s approach for it’s strict avoidance of ideology and dogma. It’s presented as ‘technology.’

Kelly noted that ‘chakrum’ is the singular form and ‘chakra’ is the plural. Maybe ‘sproink’ isn’t going to catch on. Too bad
~Don

I’m certainly no expert, but my impression is that the Chinese point of view has different emphasis than the Indo-European, when it comes of the points of the body where qi naturally concentrates.

According to the Oxford Unabridged Dictionary, the main Indo-European root word in play here is
[align=center] qwel [/align]
meaning, to turn . When the idea of a wheel came along, it was expressed by a doubling of this word, and the pronunciation evolved into
[align=center] qweqwel .[/align]
It developed in various languages as follows:
English: wheel (from “qwel”);
Swedish: hjul (from “qwel”);
Greek: kuklos (from “qweq”);
Latin: colos (from :qweq" [the “c” was pronounce as “k” by the old Romans]);
Old Slavic: kolo (from “qwel”);
Old Persian: cakrem (from “qweq”);
Sanscrit: chakrem (from “qweq” [I read somewhere that “chakra” is the plural in Sanscrit of “chakrem”.]).
So the basic meaning of “chakra” seems to be a “turning wheel”, or “turning wheels”, implying a vortex of qi at such points.

The Chinese word for “wheel” is “lun”, and the character representing it has two parts. One is for the pronunciation and the other is for the meaning. The one for the meaning is a picture of a cart, or wagon. In recent years a pseudo-Buddhist sect “fa lun gong” has attained considerable popularity in China, and elsewhere in the world: enough so that its followers have been persecuted by the Chinese Government. The “fa” means “law” or “doctrine”; the “lun” means “wheel”; and the “gong” means “skill” or “practice” (same as “kung” in “kung fu”). The practicioner does certain exercises which start this “lun” or chakra turning, and this is said to bring with it special powers.

But during my stay in Taiwan I got the idea that the points of concentration of qi were felt to be mainly important because of their location on certain lines of the body along which qi flows. The Chinese name for these lines is “mai”, and they are quite important in traditional Chinese medical theory. Qi flows through the body along these “mai” or “meridians” (the common English translation). On the meridians the qi concentrates at certain points, and in acupuncture the needles are inserted precisely at those points.

These points on the meridians are called “xue dao”. The word “xue” is pronounced almost the same as the English word “shred”, but without the final “d”. The meaning part of its character is a picture of a roof, and indicates a hole or cave: hence the connotation “hidden”. The word “dao” is the same as “tao”, “tao” being mispronounced in English due to an accident of transliteration. Its basic meaning is “path” or “way”.

One fundamental method of Chinese self-cultivation involves learning to move the qi from one important “xue dao” to another along a particular path. Some of these “xue dao” coincide with the seven chakras of Indian tradition, which is why I told Don that “xue dao” can be taken as the Chinese word for “chakra”.

When I looked up the word “chakra” for a Chinese equivalent on the web, I found another word: “mai lun”, meaning “wheel on a meridian”, but I never heard that word spoken during my years in Taiwan.

~Laozu

Laozu gave me a great book on a Taoist, and early on he was sent off to meditate and open his microcosmic orbit–this is revealed in detail in the Mantak Chia books. The orbit is the 2 main merdians that are probably the same as the Indian ones called ida and pingali, from memory. In Tai Chi they join at the nose and the tongue is a bridge which you need to touch the roof of the mouth so the energy can go round the circuit.
[img align=right]http://www.whale.to/b/chia1.jpg"/>

Chia is Chinese I guess. " He was initiated into meditation practices by Buddhist monks at the age of 6. While studying in Hong Kong, he learned Tai Chi Chuan, Aikido and Kundalini Yoga from a variety of teachers. His pursuit of Taoist teachings lead him to meet the White Cloud Hermit, a Taoist Master originally from Central China, living at that time in the mountains not far from Hong Kong. Master Yi Eng was to become Master Mantak Chia’s principle teacher. Over a period of five years, Master Yi transmitted to Master Mantak Chia the most sacred and closely held Taoist practices, formulas and methods of internal alchemy, culminating in the Reunion of Heaven and Man. " http://www.taosource.net/mantakchia.htm

Taoist practice really emphasises the moving body or Bodily kinesthetic intelligence. Learing Tai Chi, just one move, is quite a task for me.

The points on the orbit are also the chakra points according to him. The Chinese energy centre called the sperm palace or Jing Gong is the acupunture point Chung-Chi or CO-3–and he says this is the Muladhara genital sacral chakra. prostate gland.

I went to 2 Chia lectures about 10 years ago and he seemed the real deal to me. I was wondering if the Christian cross was a symbol for the heart chakra, with the 2 arms being the back and front points on the meridians either side of the heart.

Haven’t come across a better energy map than his. The other energy system that is important is the Assemblage point http://www.whale.to/b/ap.html http://www.whalemedical.com/cd1.html that comes from Native American knowledge. I had 2 depression cures in my own family that I log here http://www.whale.to/b/apf.html

You can pick up the point with a scanner, and Laozu could see it–we found points on 2 people with hands without him looking, and then asked him to have a look, and he picked out the same spot.

Mullins said Hubbard was working in the CIA mind control department. He was also a satanist:
[img align=right]http://www.whalemedical.com/p/amp.gif"/>
" I spent twelve years in Scientology. I progressed to the “secret upper levels” of Scientology which are chiefly involved with the exorcism of demons. I didn’t realize when I got into Scientology that I would be involved in demonic and satanic practices when I got onto these upper levels. Nor was it told to me that L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, was a practicing Satanist, and that this was his religion, and the “religion” behind Scientology. The facts are carefully concealed from the beginning Scientologist." A former member." http://www.whale.to/b/sc.html

I just don’t believe Hubbard worked out the tone scale all by his lonesome. The tone scale is the only thing I haven’t seen in an esoteric writings. It would kick psychiatry into touch (as would the assemblage point). The only thing I can’t figure out is why (scientology and psychiatry is run by satanists) scientology attacks psychiatry, although it hasn’t made much difference to psychiatric drug sales.

I don’t know what people get when they see a pic of Hubbard but I get the urge to run a mile. I saw a huge pic of him on a scientology book stand at a book fair. I suppressed the urge to tell the girl at the stand it would be better if they hid that under the desk.

Another ex esoteric knowledge is the 9 personality types called the Enneagram system, which seems to be Sufi as Gurdjieff was using it, and then it came via Oscar Ichazio (s american guru) who was reputed to be one of his pupils. http://www.whale.to/v/script.html Jung worked out 8.

probably can pick out your type with astrology, know someone working on that now. If you can type someone, easy for some with just 3 or 4 questions, and a bit of intuition, you can appear psychic to them. You can just reel off the 20 traits for their type. Some are quite funny, I am a 5, one of our traits is to speak softly and feel annoyed if anyone asks us to speak up. Trust me to marry a petty tyrant who always told me to speak up!

You can prove some life experiences are set before we are born as we are born a certain personality, and each one has certain relationships with its parents.

the petty tyrant system I have only seen in the native american warrior path teachings. I logged Don genaros classifications http://www.whale.to/a/tyrants.html There is an internal tyrant that you activate with ‘pride’ it seems.

This planet could be called Tyrant planet.

I have to give thanks to Georg for having the guts to start this post. I have some thoughts to add to these subjects…

Every Step is a step in the RIGHT direction no matter where each individual step takes someone. All we have are CONCEPTS or IDEAS and nothing else. Religion is a concept, spirituality is a concept and so is anything labeled New age also a concept. Beliefs and viewpoints vary from person to person. What you believe is okay, and what I believe is okay because we are dealing with concepts/ideas and nothing more. The key is for us to respect each other regardless of what we believe as individuals. There are no official blueprints in this universe so any path taken by someone is OKAY regardless of what any individual believes. I do not have the same beliefs I had 5 years ago and they are guaranteed to change again as my journey continues. The inherent nature of most human beings is GOOD even though some decide to do BAD things instead. Now I do not side with the BAD, but is this not a judgement? (Yes it most certainly is). Maybe this is why it says in the bible “judge not.� It sounds like good advice because it would allow us to steer clear of the repercussions that follow judgements. Maybe the reason it says to “judge not� because I view a situation from MY position, and someone else views the same situation only from THEIR position. Maybe if I viewed it from THEIR position (instead of mine) I just might change my mind. Now doesn’t this make sense?

SO IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT ANYBODY THINKS OR BELIEVES (WHATSOEVER) BECAUSE WE ALL VIEW THINGS FROM A GIVEN POSITION AT A GIVEN TIME AFTER OUR MINDS FACTOR IN OUR INDIVIDUAL PAST EXPERIENCES!

Bottom Line: Everyone, everything, at every level is OKAY because everything in this universe is impermanent in other words only TEMPORARY! Guaranteed, anything we do not like as an individual is sure to change given a little time because everything is transitory. The only thing that is permanent is our eternal, natural, state. The human mind cannot comprehend our eternal natural state so it’s a matter of faith whether to believe or not to believe it, but it does not matter what we believe as individuals! (We are here to learn from each other and the only we can do it is like we are doing right now)
One might ask if everything is okay then why do you gift so much? My answer is what it’s always been, BECAUSE IT�S THE ONE SURE HEARTFELT CONTRIBUTION MYSELF OR ANYONE ELSE CAN MAKE TO THE HUMAN RACE WITHOUT PREJUDICE OR EXPECTING ANYTHING IN RETURN. This is for sure one of the many things all of us here at etheric warriors has in common with each other.

What have I learned from some of you all as individuals?

Georg “Boundless courage with no limitations�
Kelly “Spiritual insights beyond my ability to comprehend�
John “Knowledge considered forbidden to the general public�
Don “Never give up at any cost�

Sincerely,

Louis

Thanks for reinforcing the point that ideologies are not important, Louis. Thx, Kelly, for shedding more light on the origin of the word, ‘chakra’ and some related Chinese traditional information.

John, I fail to see how some of what you’re offering relates to the subject of the thread but maybe I’ve missed your points. I’m certainly inclined to range pretty widely, too. Care to elaborate? We were given a book by Mantak Chia some years ago and my impression was that he simply compiled a lot of trditional wisdom, then put his name on it, which is a common tactic, even used by people like Hubbard (who, by the way, publicly castigated Parsons when Crowley apponted Parsons his successor; ‘Ron’ said that HE should have been Aleister Crowley’s successor)

In the chat sessions, we hunt for people in authority who are planning or carrying out mass murder, though of course we don’t judge these criminals; we only want to stop them. We genuinely love them, actually, and we know that we’re not intrinsically better than they are… If we don’t stop them, though, who will? The participants in these international sessions mostly feel confident that we’ve prevented countless World Trade Center style murder events this way over the past five or so years, also disabled (assisted the whales, rather) countless hydrogen bombs on the seabed and underground at unstable fault lines and volcanoes, though all of this is presented as our collective, subjective impressions. It sure is fun, though it apparently makes a lot of people, including some contributors to this forum, feel vaguely uneasy. Breaking new ground is usually uncomfortable to the majority, after all.

It’s only since November that we suddenly have more conviction that we’re not imagining any of this. One participant recently said that it always felt like videogames but that suddenly she’s seeing real feedback in the world.

If it were possible to harm anyone with the methods we’re discovering, I doubt we’d be able to keep doing it but, so far, The Operators seem to be guiding us along with fairly small steps so that we can assimilate and demonstrate these new techniques without becoming degraded and neutralized by proprietary or elitist developments, which are signs of egoism.

I can see how my constantly expressed desire to persuade people to exercise more discernment might be considered judgemental but, from where I stand, it’s the only way any of us can earn the responsibility and accountability that goes along with being an effective spiritual warrior. Responsibility and accountability is something that self seekers (especially the ones who say all the right things in order to get someone’s confidence) avoid like genital warts, so this is a pretty good winnowing process.

I certainly get some unflattering feedback in email and sometimes in posts from ideologues, though I consider that positive feedback. Ideologues are generally inclined to discourage and sabotage genuine consultation, after all, with a barrage of proprietary terminology. Even newagers say that they’re not newagers, so I’ve always felt it’s safe to use that term, along with ‘religious fundamentalism,’ as examples of reactionary, programmed mindsets posing as progressive ones. This is another battlefield, just as surely as the one we engage on in the chat sessions, though the other side’s fighters on the former field are willing slaves; the ol’ human wave technique that we can see destroying so many potentially good forums.

Just like the Mormon ‘elders’ and Jehovah’s Witnesses who show up at your door, the human wave of Political Correctness and Theosophy-programmed ‘activists’ who invade forums are certainly not interested in receiving new ideas; they’re there to hammer everyone else into silence with their own ideologies and there’s nothing wrong with calling attention to that tactic. Georg is having a hell of a time with this on his board right now. It’s not being judgemental to call attention to those tactics but the ideologues are inherently judgemental, so don’t you think it’s odd that nobody in those forums will object to the ideologues’ behavior but nearly everyone will look at the rational person, who objects to the tactics, with a jaundiced eye? That, too, is a result of careful programming and points up the need to keep pushing the notion of personal discernment and accountability.

I used to have a lot of fun on a previous forum avoiding the carefully aimed personal slings and arrows from a tight group of saboteurs but that didn’t lead anywhere, so I eventually started my own forum and dis-included self seekers and saboteurs. What angered them the most was that I’d call attention to their tactics without ever mentioning any of their names. I get plenty of positive feedback about having a forum where saboteurs and their weak-charactered ‘peanut gallery’ (or Greek chorus of witless ideologues, if you will) are simply not invited [Image Can Not Be Found]

Everyone on EW is here because he/she demonstrated personal courage, conscience and commitment, rather. It’s a plus when someone who is ‘ordinary’ demonstrates those qualities becuase in that case there’s no feeling that this person is looking for a following, so his/her example is readily assimilated by our readers. Nobody’s required to agree with me.

The best feedback I get is from people who tell me that they appreciate the incentive to get them to think about things some more instead of just accepting whatever the What To Think Network, clergy or disinformation sites are promoting. What I generally present isn’t something one can agree or disagree with, after all: I’m just stating personal impressions without asking anyone to agree, unless I say,‘Don’t you agree?’ Anyone’s free to say, ‘No,’ or ‘Hell, NO!’ and still remain my friend. I could always be wrong, after all. There’s such a scarcity of rational discussions on the web or elsewhere, these days, that I’m in a constant state of shock, so I express the shock as palatably as I can. I think everyone should be shocked into trying to communicate from the heart and more rationally, then the problem will just go away. Otherwise, programming is self perpetuating; takes on its own life, literally. Even after the world odor has been discarded a lot of their old programs will linger on, though more like a flat tire than a juggernaut, perhaps.

I doubt any two people believe exactly the same things, though ideologues tend to all say the same things within their own group’s paradigm–some of it is pretty creepy, hive-mind crap. I’m mostly interested in keeping the clash of personal ideologies out of consultation, since all that terminology has been weaponized by now. It can be very good when real ideas clash, though. The new info is teaching us all to be more detached, by the way, so we’ve started to see discussions get a little more elevated and fun than before.

The funny thing is that as soon as the programming agency falls, as in the case of communism, overt fascism and some of the more overtly predatory church ideologies, the loaded terminology becomes less threatening and even comical, so in a few years, after the world odor and tbhe What To Think Network have dried up and blown away, we’ll probably be able to use even Sanskrit (Theosophical piracy) and Biblical terminology without pushing anyone’s buttons. For instance, ‘The State as Father,’ ‘Deutschland uber alles,’ and ‘Killing for Christ,’ just don’t inspire terror or patriotism any more.

The wonderful result of putting things into our own words and according to our heart’s promptings is that we treat each other to our own fresh, non-invasive impressions. I guarantee that there are Mormons, bornagain Christians and plenty of newagers who enjoy reading my ramblings because they don’t feel threatened by me, even when I’m criticising their ideologies. The folks who get mad at me are the hand wringers who have no beliefs in particular but who are afraid that I’m going to offend one group or another. How odd is that? This is quite a challenge, right now, because it’s a lot easier to just express what we think and feel as the more familiar, packaged concepts. I personally believe that ‘western democratic liberalism,’ which is the default ideology of anyone who is educated but who won’t take a stand about anything, is more insidious than any of the other group-think paradigms are becuase it’s lifeless and sucks the life out of everyone, if possible.

This higher dimension activity is changing the rules already, I think. We’re starting to understand and appreciate the dolphins and whales better, for instance, and by extension we’re probably being prepared to start interacting directly with other benevolent species and races who have been invisible until now. An awful lot of people have seen direct evidence of their existence, of course, so I think it’s just a waiting game, now, like the thorough introduction of free energy technology is. Maybe the only challenge relating to the new info is to catch onto it sooner than later if one wants to consider himself to be a pioneer. It’s fun and rewarding to be a pioneer, after all.

What seems to be happening is that the entire species’ awareness is rising and nobody’s being ‘left behind.’ I rather think that the Theosophical gurus who are promoting the newer ‘left behind’ notion are riding the coat tails of the older, ‘heaven/hell,’ motivator that was designed by cynical clergy to keep ‘the faithful’ in line and in fearful conformity with official doctrines. Thankfully, artificial ideologies are all taking a beating, these days, as the world odor continues to dissolve.

~Don

I just got the following private message from Georg and in the interest of keeping this group effort an ‘open conspiracy’ I felt that this is suitable to share (my answers/comments are in caps):

Don,

Just noticed that the thread “fake or real” has somehow become a seperate thread from the other one I started “fake vs real spirituality”. It was meant as a reply to your post therein. Anyways, no big deal. I hope that inquiry of mine is not getting on your nerves. I’m trying to get clarification on something.

IT’S A GOOD DISCUSSION, G. THE TRICK TO PULLING OFF A DISCUSSION LIKE THIS, ESPECIALLY AMONG MEN, IS TO KEEP THE TESTOSTERONE LEVEL AS LOW AS POSSIBLE [Image Can Not Be Found] BUT I THINK WE’RE ALL DOING FINE.

In my view we are all on some kind of “spiritual path” (loaded word probably, so I use inverted commas)
a lot of us are using meditation techniques or other exercises that might also be used by Newagers.

THAT REFLECTS ON THE SAD FACT THAT THEOSOPHY-BASED CULTS HAVE ESSENTIALLY OWNED ‘PUBLIC METAPHYSICS’ FOR A CENTURY AND A HALF, WHICH IS PERHAPS WHY METAPHYSICS IS A MINEFIELD OF LOADED TERMS, AT LEAST FOR NOW, BUT SINCE NEWAGERS ARE COMPELLED TO SWARM TO EVERY PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT IN ORDER TO OWN IT THEY’VE FOUND A LOT OF GOOD, NEW STUFF AND ARE SHARING IT. ONLY A FEW CYNICAL NEWAGERS KNOW THIS IS GOING ON, OF COURSE; THE REST ARE JUST ACTING FROM PROGRAMMING AND ARE GOOD PEOPLE.

IT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO CONSIDER THAT NEWAGE CULTS DON’T ORIGINATE ANYTHING; THEY REGURGITATE OTHERS’ INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND/OR THEIR SPONSORS LET OUT LITTLE BITS OF PREVIOUSLY HIDDEN/HOARDED INFO, AS IN DRUNVALO MELCHIZEDEK’S CASE. IN CONTRAST, LOOK AT ALL THE GENUINELY NEW AND EMPOWERING STUFF THAT PEOPLE IN THIS MOVEMENT ARE SPONTANEOUSLY COMING UP WITH!

MAYBE THIS IS ILLUSTRATED IN JESUS’ PARABLE ABOUT THE INADVISABILITY OF PUTTING NEW WINE IN OLD WINESKINS: THE ARTIFICIAL, THEOSOPHICAL PARADIGM BEING THE OLD WINE SKIN AND THE NEW INFORMATION, ESPECIALLY THE HIGHER-DIMENSION PRACTICES, BEING THE NEW WINE. REALLY, ALL OF THE GENUINE RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURES (THE SURVIVING WORDS OF THE PROPHETS, NOT THE ENDLESS SEWER OF CLERGY COMMENTARY) ARE THE CREATIVE WORD, SO ARE NEVER OLD. sOME OF THE MORE GENUINE SCIENTISTS, FOR INSTANCE, LOOK FOR FRESH INSIGHTS BY READING THE SCRIPTURES OF THE VARIOUS GENUINE RELIGIONS.

My point is something else: Gold is rarely found in it’s pure form. Mostly it’s amalgamated with other minerals and has to be extracted in small quantities by moving large amounts of rock.

I want to hone our gold refining skills.

NOW YOU’RE SEEING THE CHALLENGE OUR PSYCHICS ARE HAVING WITH THE NEW DIMENSIONAL INFORMATION! THEY’RE CAREFUL TO NOTE THAT THE SUGGESTED EXERCISES ARE SIMPLY THAT–THE ‘FIRST WORD’ RATHER THAN THE LAST [Image Can Not Be Found]; WE’RE ALL BREAKING SO MUCH GROUND, THESE DAYS, THAT IT’S ALMOST EMBARRASSING BUT WE’LL MUDDLE THROUGH, AS ALWAYS. I LIKE YOUR GOLD ANALOGY! DISCERNMENT IS LIKE GETTING GOLD OUT OF THE GROUND IN A NON-TOXIC WAY, PERHAPS.

Gifting is great, but we are also gifted with a mind and an intellect that loves to form a picture of the world in which we are living, because it wants to understand what’s going on.

SURE, AND WE ALSO NEED TO USE LANGUAGE THAT CLEARLY CONVEYS OUR EXPERIENCES AND INSIGHTS–QUITE CHALLENGING FOR ALL OF US.

On the other hand, our culture, or “frame of reference” in science, art and literature has been formed under the strong influence of those same forces (the Babylonian brotherhood and it’s offspring one may say)
Sometimes I feel that the “human experience” is much more rich than anything that can be described in an “us and them” way.

YEAH, I CERTAINLY DON’T WISH TO EXCLUDE ANYONE BUT USING THEOSOPHICAL TERMINOLOGY WOULD BE JUST AS INAPPROPRIATE AS USING CHRISTIAN, JEWISH, MUSLIM OR ZOROASTRIAN TERMS BECAUSE ALL OF THAT IS USUALLY PERCEIVED BY PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS/CULTURES AS EXCLUSIVE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE USER OF THOSE TERMS IS TRYING TO EXCLUDE ANYONE.

TOO BAD WE DON’T ALL SPEAK ‘DESPERANTO.’ (GEORG TOLD ME ABOUT THAT FUNNY OUT-TAKE ON ‘ESPERANTO’).

I FEEL A LITTLE BIT BAD THAT LOUIS ONDER HAS APPARENTLY GOTTEN THE IMPRESSION THAT I WANT TO CONDUCT A POGROM ON NEWAGERS. MY ONLY REQUEST TO THE NEWAGERS ON THIS FORUM IS THAT THEY WILL MAKE A GOOD-FAITH EFFORT TO COMMUNICATE FROM THE HEART RATHER THAN WITH ROTE TERMS AND PHRASES. SINCE NONE OF THE CHRISTIANS, JEWS, BUDDHISTS, HINDUS, PAGANS AND MUSLIMS IN THE FORUM MEMBERSHIP ARE INCLINED TO PUT THEIR OBSERVATIONS AND EXPERIENCES IN THE SOLE CONTEXT OF THEIR OWN PERSONAL RELIGIOUS/CULTURAL MATRIX I HAVEN’T MENTIONED THEIR IDEOLOGIES AS POTENTIAL HANDICAPS TO PERSONAL COMMUNICATION BUT YOU CAN BET THAT IF FIVE BUDDHISTS OR ZOROASTRIAN MEMBERS START WORKING TOGETHER TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS UNORGANIZED, GLOBAL MOVEMENT IS IDENTIFIED WITH THEIR OWN BELIEF PARADIGMS I’D BE GOING AFTER THAT ASSUMPTION PRETTY AGGRESSIVELY, TOO .

AN ARROGANT, INSIDIOUS FUNDAMENATLIST CHRISTIAN GAL ON THE WEB WHO GETS A LOT OF TRAFFIC ON HER SITE TRIED TO SCAM ME TO BE HER ‘PARTNER’ IN PROMOTING ORGONITE BY TELLING ME THAT ‘BIBLE CODE SAYS THAT DON CROFT IS A PROPHET’ IS A CASE IN POINT. CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW DEGRADED E.W. WOULD BE, BY NOW IF I’D GONE ALONG WITH HER SCHEME? I’D LOOK LIKE A FIRST CLASS CHUMP. I’D BE A FIRST CLASS CHUMP [Image Can Not Be Found];

That which has controlled us and pushed us into the existing situation also bears the seed of it’s own overcoming and we are part of that too.
In a way one could say “Illuminati’ R us”, if you know what I mean. It’s our history there is no other human history than that shaped by these forces and ideas.

GOOD POINT–AFTER THE PSYCHICS KEYED INTO THE HIGHER DIMENSION TOOLS IT SOON BECAME APPARENT THAT EGOISM IS A BIGGER POTENTIAL TRAP THAN BEFORE BUT I THINK THEY SPOTTED THAT BEFORE GETTING CLOSE TO THE EDGE, SO NO PROBLEM. TO BE CONSIDERED VIABLE IN THIS MOVEMENT ONE HAS TO REALLY CLEAVE TO PERSONAL INTEGRITY, AFTER ALL, AND I THINK ALL OF US WANT TO STAY IN THE GAME BECAUSE IT’S JUST SO DAMN REWARDING, PERSONALLY. I’M NOT SHY ABOUT SAYING THAT THE SERVICE ASPECT TAKES A BACK SEAT, FOR ME, TO THE DESIRE TO DEMONSTRATE PERSONAL AND INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY.

We’ve got the Cathedrals and the torture chambers as our mental heritage. It’s who we are…
Maybe that perception is very European because medieval culture is much more present there of course.
But I think an analogue exists in all other cultures as well.

THAT’S FOR SURE. FORTUNATELY, EUROPOID CULTURES HAVE A LOT OF GOOD TRADITIONS AND EXEMPLARS, TOO. WHEN THINGS WERE BAD IN EUROPE THEY PRETTY MUCH WERE THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD, TOO. MAYBE THE THING TO FOCUS ON IS THAT THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE IS GETTING NICER AND SMARTER. WE CAN FIND GOOD EXAMPLES OF SAVAGERY AND NOBILITY IN THE HISTORY OF EVERY SINGLE CULTURE, OF COURSE.

Credo Mutwa says, in the soul a red and a blue worm (good and evil) are contantly striving for supremacy. If one ever gains such complete supremacy, the soul will die.
nuff now said, will continue only if you’re interested in this discussion.

I JUST LENT DOONEY AND STEVO THE SIX-HOUR LECTURE BY CREDO MUTTWA ON HIS EXPERIENCE WITH REPTILIANS. THE MAN IS PEERLESS AS A STOREHOUSE OF METAPHYSICAL EXPERIENCE AND INSIGHT, OF COURSE (AND THERE’S NOT A SMIDGEON OF THEOSOPHY FROM HIM!), AND THE AFRICAN VARIETY MAKES THEOSOPHY LOOK LIKE A CHILD’S PLAYTHING, WHICH IT IS, OF COURSE. WATCHING THAT LECTURE IMPRESSES ONE WITH THE VAST DEPTH AND HISTORY OF THE DARK CONTINENT’S VARIOUS CULTURES BECAUSE CREDO TRAVELLED WIDELY AND WAS INITIATED INTO A LOT OF SECRET SOCIETIES. YES, THERE ARE BENEVOLENT SECRET SOCIETIES IN TEH WORLD AS WELL AS THE BETTER-KNOWN ONES THAT ARE RUN BY THE SEWER RATS.

I THINK YOU’RE EXTREMELY FORTUNATE AND HONORED TO KNOW THAT GREAT TEACHER, GEORG, AND WE’RE ALL BLESSED THAT HE LIKES ORGONITE DEVICES SO MUCH. I HOPE YOU’LL OCCASIONALLY POST ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH HIM, FOR THE SAKE OF OUR NEWER READERS, BECAUSE OUR OLDER WRITINGS SOMETIMES GET LOST IN THE SHUFFLE AND SOME THINGS BEAR REPEATING OFTEN. I PROBABLY GET TWEAKED MORE THAN ANHYONE ELSE DOES, WHICH GOES TO SHOW THAT I’M NOT A SAINT OR BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. REALLY SPIRITUAL PEOPLE TAKE LITERALLY EVERYTHING IN STRIDE. I LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING SOMEONE LIKE THAT, SOMEDAY [Image Can Not Be Found]

I’M VERY INCLINED TO KEEP DISCUSSING TOUCHY SUBJECTS EVEN WHEN THE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS HAVE PEAKED. WE NEED TO DEMONSTRATE THAT WE CAN ALL CONSULT WITH EACH OTHER WITHOUT PRESENTING A LOCKSTEP, FALSE-UNITY IMAGE TO OUR READERS.

Georg

SORRY FOR THE USE OF CAPS. I KNOW IT’S KIND OF LIKE SHOUTING BUT I’M TECHNICALLY DEAF, AFTER ALL, AND THIS IS THE MOST CONVENIENT METHOD, OTHERWISE, OF ANSWERING COMMENTS/QUESTIONS IN A MESSAGE FROM SOMEONE ELSE <!-- sCool --><img src=“http://dev2.ethericwarriors.co……&quot; alt=”Cool" title=“Cool” /><!-- sCool -->

Egoli.buster
I have my own budding ideas about this but would like to invite some comment and spark some debate with this question before I offer my own clumsy approximations.

Georg

‘Secret’ sure pushes my buttons (right there Louis–I also have the task of killing the medical tyrant). The secret group known as the Twisted Hair Medicine society have decided to let out long held secrets (100-1,000 year+) eg the Assemblage Point which is jolly nice of them. When you see what it is it is just more information on human software, just like the Enneagram another ex-secret of the Gurdjieff lot. Secrets are the glue of negative groupthink, aren’t they. Which is why this ‘group’ is so powerful–there are no secrets. There probably is a term for a group that isn’t a group.

One of Gurdjieffs followers listed the spiritual path as a [u:19jxq5dx]game[/u:19jxq5dx] just above the family one. That did tweak my ego on first reading but he was dead right. Sun Bear hit the nail also when he said something along the lines of—-does it (your knowledge) grow corn? All those seers who can see so much, haven’t done one thing for humanity that I am aware of. Same for all those mountain top, and monastry lot, as you would expect–it is just a life path, next life it will be filling cars with gas, as DB observed. Or life as a Dolphin.

Laozu is the best example of a truly spiritual person in my book–healing the planet while making out it is no big deal. That is growing corn. Same for Don and Carol, and courageous gifters like George and Louis.

I used to think this was a prison planet but I now realise it is exactly as Creator wanted it, obviously. It is hard not to believe you are better than non-spiritual people but that is pure ego, ‘spiritual people’ have an easier ride by my observations. At the end of the day they all die like everyone else. End of story.

I have watched the Mutwa Icke interview and saw the bit re evil vs good in that mammoth book. That suggests good and evil are progammed scripts. My favourite ‘spiritual’ books are by Robert Shapiro, http://www.whale.to/a/shapiro_h.html blew my mind, but channelled which is another buzz word for some (ie another baby out with the bathwater). I did 2 channellings with his entity–Zoosh, but think it went to his (Shapiro) head. Zoosh said we have 50% negativity, it should be about 2%. Negativity is used for growth. And we all know who keeps that up to 50%.

I have been warned that Mantak Chia doesn’t feel right. That brings up the fact much knowledge comes out via the bad guys. John Lilly doesn’t feel too right to me, Springmeier says he was an Illuminati programmer–you can’t get more heinous than that. My main source of knowledge (the stuff that doesn’t grow corn)—my ex wife would have slit his throat give half a chance. He isn’t on the path of love presently, for sure.
[img align=right]http://www.whale.to/b/johnlilly2.jpg"/>

Thanks for cataloguing all your personal enquiries over the years, John.

I think that one of the old-paradigm notions that are going by the board, right now, is the assumption that spirituality is somehow tied to personalities and organizations. I’m very pleased that the material Carol and I have contributed to the movement isn’t generally identified with us becuase it shows the grassroot nature of this effort. In fact, the efforts by the more clever disinformants on the internet to discredit us have been helpful this way: it’s become faux pas for anyone to publicly praise us. Fortunately, keeping EW online provides a means for many of us to at least stay viable in teh movement and to demonstrate some reasonable standards. It’s been wonderfully rewarding for us all, that way.

I generally won’t mention cult leaders because a lot of that sort of discussion can interfere with communication, I think, also with readers’ own discernment processes if one pretends to authority. It seems more productive to focus on issues and principles because, then, one is more likely to pay attention to heart-promptings and instincts rather than to endorphin releases. The fake stuff acts on the mind and inspires speculation and fantasy; the good stuff acts on the heart and inspires positive action, after all.

That sort of cuts both ways, since the data becomes more significant than the source. When someone demonstrates integrity I like to promote that person but when he/she doesn’t, I can still take the offered information and put it to use. I hope to avoid plagiarism, of course, and it’s good to consider that most of the good stuff offered by fakers is plagiarized, after all. There are exceptions, of course.

On the other hand, if we require pioneers to exhibit saintly characteristics before we’ll learn something from them we won’t be learning much at all from anyone, perhaps, and our discussions might turn into high-sounding pissing contests. The only standard I apply to personal relationships is that I only let people get close to me when I’m fairly certain they won’t stick a knife in my back. I don’t really care if he/she is a saint as long as there’s an abiding desire to demonstrate personal integrity. We can all have that trait in common, regardless of our talents and potentials.

~Don

Re Chia. Never seen any of that stuff in text form until I read him, although may be in Chinese texts, and common knowledge in those parts for all I know. The book Laozu gave me talks about the orbit meditation but doesn’t say what it is or how to do it–you would have to join a group or find a master to get it. It also talks about texts but they are kept pretty secret.

Most of the spiritual psychology stuff that people like Anthony Robbins spouts is in 200 old books, but he did say you should read 700 books to get a measure of a subject. I looked at 700 or so books on medicine to delete the Allopathic brainwashing, although 2 or 3 would be enough if you were openminded, and didn’t need to convince anyone else. I seem to have a inbuilt anti-hypnosis programme luckily (poor memory and low academic intelligence are indications of that), I did a self hypnosis course once where they put you across 2 chairs and someone sits on you–hard work if you aren’t under, not to mention the needle through the skin! That also helped me escape the Robbins £5,000 next course sell, although i did fall for the £120 set of tapes that are gathering dust on the shelves.

I tried the rebirthing thing, even went of a Leonard Orr course for free, that is just a pranayama he discovered in his bath. I suppose he could be a new age man if there ever was one, but i found his spiritual psychology to be spot on. Discovered after £800 wasted that it only works for emotionally free people, generally speaking.

It is a good point about personal qualities of people with knowledge. I am not sure who put out the disinfo that only good stuff comes via Saints, probably the Church, but it is a load of baloney. The Persona or Personality is only a programme anyway and if someone isn’t operating from a Heart based perspective then they are someone who needs healing—-any loving thought is true, anything else is an appeal for healing–is the mantra for that. As far as spiritual knowledge goes then I would have thought the native american seers were the most knowledgeable but I wouldn’t trust them an inch. I suspect they killed SunBear for talking too much.

I would love to find out who these new age fakes are, they seem to have escaped my attention, I can then make some sort of evaluation. ‘Spirituality’ needs defining really. The main thing about spiritual knowledge seems to be learning what isn’t true for the most part as what isn’t true is what kills you, you can see that in medicine easily, and true spiritual knowledge will help you avoid the traps of new age fakers no doubt. Losing your mind, wife (da Free John likes yours) and money, not to mention timewasteing and not doing the important stuff right now, like gifting.

Medical knowledge can be way more use than knowing god exists or the law of attraction, as something like vaccination or psychiatric drugs can ruin your life way way more than any new age guru. I would prefer to use the word Knowledge and use it to cover anything worth knowing.

While I am at it I did Kundalin yoga for years, found them to be good people, although not too sure about the turban and becoming a Sikh. Yogi Bajan is a case in point, last I heard he had a heart bypass!

John Lilly basically rewrote the Indian texts for the westerner, with some elaboration.

The hardest thing for me is to heal myself and to feel good. They go hand in hand obviously. Healing is very different from curing as I think you mentioned. I have asked Carol about how karma affects healing as that seems to be one of the last obstacles to complete healing. I don’t want to push anyones reincarnation buttons but past lives that are still going on do seem to impact on this life–which is what Soul retrieval is mostly about, cutting those ties—that knowledge came from Native Americans.

john

JOhn, I’m getting plenty of feedback in email from people who appreciate us opening up this discussion, so I guess I’ve touched some resonant cords out there. I’m sorry if you got the impression that I was being overly critical of Mantak Chia. I still think it’s possible and even constructive to discuss the subject of spirituality without inserting a lot of personalities into the process.

I mention Theosophy-based programming, which seems to be familiar to a lot of people, as a spiritual handicap more times than some would like, I think. Maybe I focus on that too much but I hope to accomplish two things by repeating it:

  1. I want to make it clear that the gifting network isn’t even remotely associated with that ideology because Theosophy-based believers swarm every progressive movement in order to ‘own’ it, seemingly by default.

  2. I honestly believe that most of the mind control systems in the West are based on that ideology, so it seems fair to keep drawing attention to it.

It’s pretty cut and dried who’s promoting that programming but I’ve felt that it’s not appropriate to mention names because then I’d be perceived as a curmudgeon or a personality promoter. If I named the entire hippie guru stable I’d be perceived as a mudslinger. It feels to me like enough people are seeing my points, so I suppose I’ll pursue them in various ways.

I can suggest a score or so Theosophy-based gurus to you (John) in private email, if you want, and maybe you’ll then see the pattern. None of the ones you mentioned seem to fit that mold, at least, except those posturing fools, Crowley and Hubbard, whom Theosophists, themselves, probably disown [Image Can Not Be Found]; , even they too were promoting the Theosophy/masonic party line.

When I was a teen and had just become aware that there’s a bigger, unseen world, I felt almost infuriated by the way the fake spiritual masters were plagiarizing genuine spiritual teachings and even putting them into an irrational format. The London-based neo-Hindu gurus hit the ground running in those days, supported by The Beatles and other cultural icons.

Many of the Renaissance scientists and philosophers understood that spirituality and science are inseparable and their approaches were quite rational. I suppose you could say that Leibnitz epitomized this and Newton epitomized the way the world odor ‘edits’ the offerings of the more legitimate pioneers like Leibnitz in order to support their dirty spiritual paradigm. After I got into the healing trade, ten years ago, I came in contact with a lot of scientists. I was shocked to realize that when someone has had a lot of science training, which is all materialistic in the universities, and that person wants to approach a more metaphysical paradigm, he/she tends powerfully toward superstition, as Newton, himself, did. It may be that the irrationality of modern science education has programmed these people to simply apply that approach to spirituality, too. It’s a very strange situation and I’ve never gotten used to it.

The perversion of Leibnitz’ broader, synergistic offerings by Newton’s linear, ennervating plagiarisms is what I was seeing with all of the hippie-driven gurus in the late 1960s and all of the Theosophy-derived ‘masters’ that preceded them. I know someone who had spent time with Krishnamurti, by the way, whom Alice Bailey was promoting as ‘The Return of Christ,’ which so shocked and disturbed Steiner that he broke away from Theosophy in those days. The fellow told me that Krishnamurti was a hell of a nice guy; genuinely humble. We might say, charitably, taht many or even most of the gurus similarly promoted since the late 1960s are also nice guys and want to do good.

This brings up the issue of intentions, I think. I doubt I personally know of anyone who actually has bad intentions. Sure, some of the quasi-government agents who try to harm a few of us obviously don’t have good intentions but we rarely encounter them, face to face, in a way that we could have a discussion so I can say I don’t know them personally.

Does it really matter if we have good intentions if we allow ourselves to be tools of the world odor? I just don’t think intentions matter at all; what we do matters, though.

Newagers like to use the word, ‘intention,’ by the way, but none of them have ever explained to me what that means. When I hear them say it, I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, though, which is how my body seems to respond to proselytizing. I think preaching is obsolete, so it doesn’t do any good.

Some other newagers claim that they ‘program’ their orgonite devices and this seems to be another trigger word that gets broadcast and repeated by others in the absence of explanations. What’s wrong with defining the words we use? What’s really going on when a group of people will promote terminology which they can’t or won’t explain to others? I’m gratified to learn that this is creeping out a lot of rational people, finally. Before (not long ago) whenever anyone offered constructive criticism about that kind of behavior, a Greek chorus of newagers, using ‘love and light’ terminology like weapons, would surround and browbeat the questioner into silence. I’m very glad that this isn’t happening on this website, at least, and I think it’s a good beginning.

Another obstacle to rational thought and discussion is the use of drugs. Drug addiction has been the basis for much of the irrrationalist programming I mentioned, after all. Before the advent of pot and LSD the Theosophy movement was pretty small, even though it had become influential. With the introduction of pot and LSD in the West on a massive scale, suddenly in the late 1960s this became a coordinated, top-down militant organization.

I haven’t mentioned pot addiction in a long time, in posts, because nobody on EW has been promoting the use of drugs for several years but I don’t see how I could avoid mentioning it in the context of the newage movement.

These days, lots of newagers don’t use drugs, by the way. Maybe after a couple of generations of practice, the world odor is capable of programming the un witting without first addicting them to pot. Most of the newagers do use the stuff, of course.

Theosophy, in the late 1800s, was openly promoted as ‘irrationalism,’ by the way. Notice that nobody’s identifying with that silly term, any more nor are Theosophists openly promoting their paradigm as ‘luciferianism’ as they also did before WWII. The content of this false religion hasn’t changed but the packaging constantly changes to keep up with the times.

Theosophy reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw, once: There they go, and I must hurry after, because I AM THEIR LEADER!’ [Image Can Not Be Found];

~Don

It’s not unlike the way the US Air Force and the CIA laid a foundation in the late 1940s for discrediting and misleading everyone who has an interest in aliens and UFOs, then pubished and promoted their own silly versions, which by the way included all of the Theosophy ideologies.

The NSA perverted the Wingmakers information in 2000 or so in order to make it look ludicrous. They were so effective that Carol and I stopped using the term, ‘Wingmakers,’ early on, though we apparently had some pretty profound, direct experiences with them even before we met Al Bielek and heard his personal accounts of them.

John, you’ve shared a lot of accounts of your experiences with various teachers, some of whom apparently disappointed you. I’ve had spiritual teachers in the past but in each case I could identify what it was that they had to offer me, then took steps to ‘get it.’ Each relationship was symbiotic so my approach has been a little different, perhaps. I never encountered anyone who gave me the impression that I needed them to formally initiate me in order to teach me anything, though in some cases I had some pretty dramatic initiation experiences under their guidance. The best initiations seem to be the ones that originate from our own intuitive promptings, as far as I know.

Most of them didn’t share my personal ideology but that was never an issue for me. I don’t know if it should ever be an issue, in fact.

It occured to me, this morning, after all this writing and reading in the thread, that we apparently aren’t all operating with the same definition of ‘spirituality.’

So, I looked in the dictionary and was a little shocked to see that the definition, itself, is pretty ambiguous and it’s probably just another loaded buzzword these days

The highest compliment I get from my readers is that I’ve made them think about stuff and I’m getting plenty of positive feedback about this thread so I’m going to press on with any new thoughts and observations as they occur.

I was born to be an iconoclast, apparently, and in most of society that makes me a pariah. The internet is a place where all of us pariahs can get together and compare notes and it also provides a means for other pariahs of conscience to get some confirmation that they’re not crazy, after all, for doubting any of the dead paradigms.

A couple of months ago, when Carol, Dooney, Stevo and I experienced that big introductory rush, together, up into the higher dimensions we immediately wondered how or if this experience could be shared. I suppose the experience could be classified as spiritual but we’re not cleaving to that word, particularly. As with other momentous developments in this movement we assumed that only time would tell us the nature of that one and how it might be generally applied by anyone in a positive, harmless way.

We started getting confirmations pretty soon in the international chat sessions because most of the participants were able to reach those dimensions without much struggle. The only struggle anyone experienced seemed to be on account of dead-paradigm programming, which wasn’t a grievous obstacle, after all, at least with these folks.

Theosophy being the source of most of that programming, I stepped up my campaign to expose it, then, in hope that more and more people will take that step into the higher dimensions and start seeing the world the way the dolphins and other higher, more benevolent species are doing. All four of us feel certain that this is the next level and is preparation for all of humanity to be able to interact directly and visibly with the unseen realm. I don’t include religious programming in this case because people who are programmed that way avoid productive metaphysical activities like the clap, after all, and newagers flock to it, open mouthed and sans-discernment, like a school of fish.

Jesus spoke in parables a lot, perhaps because that format couldn’t be tampered with, later on , by clergy or even by his own disciples, many of whom displayed some pretty shameful habits, after all, including mysogeny and the desire for leadership. The parable of the camel and the needle’s eye may be a case in point and if I’m on track, this illustrates why ideology can be such a grievous ‘spiritual’ burden and hindrance but can also be discarded without much risk.

He said, ‘The rich man is as unlikely to reach the kingdom of heaven as the loaded camel is likely to pass through the eye of the needle.’ I’m sure I paraphrased it but, after all, if we were purists we’d be discussing it in Aramaic. You probably know the parable. In those times, cities had walls around them and after sunset the gates were all closed, the only access then being a small door within the gate that only an unladen camel could pass through. It made the cities more easily defensible at night, that’s all. Nothing mystical about it.

So, in order to enter the city, the camel had to be divested of its load. In order to gain insight and direct experience with dimensions higher than the fourth, where the world odor essentially rules the world from but can’t transcend, one really does have to divest him/herself of all that programming which the world odor generated from the fourth dimension. The only information that comes to us from higher dimensions than that one is from Prophets, some poets, genuine scientists and other result-oriented people throughout history. The parasites ‘edit’ this information to suit their need to prey on others’ gullibility, of course, which is why it’s always best to get real information from the source, not through these institutional filters and septic tanks, posing as ‘masters,’ or ‘shamans.’

‘In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king,’ as we know. In the world of three dimensions, which is gthe world of the Pajama People, including all those newagers who believe that they’ve found all the packaged answers, those who have ‘ascended’ to the higher, fourth dimension seem like gods by comparison and easily mystify and even terrorize (with pre-digested heaven/hell/reincarnation/karma myths) the 3D prisoners.

I’m telling you that with a little bit of effort, assuming those leadweights of ideological programming are not anchoring you in 3D, we get beyond and above the fourth-dimension, two legged parasites and can get a broader, much more interesting and fascinating view of reality. If you haven’t tried it, yet, what’s stopping you? We feel sure that the more people do this, the sooner the world odor will be discarded by the rest.

The exercises that Dooney and Carol offered are nice starting points but they’re quick to remind us that these are not exclusive and shouldn’t be institutionalized; they’re practical suggestions, only.

Since we started doing this regularly, the international chat sessions have become lighter, more energizing and more productive. I especially like the way the best of the world odor’s psychic predators are apparently unable to see where our curative efforts are coming from

I doubt anyone would confuse this with newage sewage, Georg, don’t worry. I guess my butt is covered, here, because I’m not willing to state with any authority that we’re not just imagining all this as a group. As with anything else that’s worthwhile, time will be the judge of that. We’ve spent a couple of months experimenting with the process by now, though, and we feel very encouraged by the results and confirmations, so nobody’s going to likely persuade us that we’re wasting our time.

~Don

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